Friday, 03 July 2009
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Heaven or Hell
EDIT: Sorry for the timestamp, but this is just something that needs to be heard and understood about sin.
I have heard it said by many folks on Xanga that if God would send ANYONE to a place like hell then they don't want any part of worshiping a God like that. Thing is, they don't understand sin, let alone the Holiness of God. Sin is the ugliest thing there is and God's Holiness is the most beautiful and radiant.Two totally opposites. So many don't realize just how awful sin is. Sin disguises itself here in the flesh. Sin looks fun and exciting. Hell is a place for sin so it has even been looked at by those who love to do sinful things as being the place to be where all the action will be. That's what I mean by sin disguising itself here when we see it. Here sin is enticing and appeals to our senses. Hell was made for sin,the devil and his demons and all sin and those who have lived for it are going there. See, once in hell, the disguise is removed that the devil uses and you see sin for what it really is, in it's full awfulness and ugliness. Unless God opens your eyes to it here, and shows it to you through His eyes, you can't see the filthiness of it. The mask sin uses on us does not hide itself from God.
People wonder why there has to be suffering and why God allows it. Read Romans 8:18 where it says, "For I consider that the suffering of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us." Sin hides God's glory and causes that suffering.God does not cause the suffering, SIN does. Look at the suffering all around you, THAT is sin uncovered and what you will see in hell if you turn from God.
I didn't mean to make this into some scary post about hell, but this HAS to be told about sin and it's awfulness. Those who see nothing wrong with sin....or what they just call living, are fooled by it's disguise. Those who call believing in God blind faith and live for what they can see are the ones who are blind. Because they can't see through the disguise sin is using. You don't want to believe God, so He turns you over to what you THINK you love and then when the day comes and you go where sin is sent, you see it for what it really is, the full suffering of sin REALLY start then.
Again, I would much rather have focused on the glory to be revealed to us in Heaven for those who love God and trust His Son for their salvation, but these things about sin and it's deception needed to be shown. I can imagine if this gets recommended enough and the atheist groups find it, they will have a field day with it, but then that's because they only see the disguise sin has masked itself with. If you read further after Romans 8:18 you will see where even all of creation was effected by the sin of man and even it yearns to be freed from sins hold. I didn't mean to bring anyone down with this post, but then if you are secure in your trust in Christ, you know the glory awaiting you and are not bother by this post at all.
Those who DON'T know God are the ones who will be offended. Take care my friends! I love you, but God loves you SOOOO much more than I could even comprehend. He came to take your punishment for you, all you have to do is believe it! In Christ alone!~Grampy~
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Comments (26)
God doesn't send anyone to hell...people choose hell...
Your analogies remind me of Peretti's symbolism of sin in "The Oath." If you haven't read it, you should. I think you'd enjoy it.
They don't understand that the Wrath of God is upon them.....as it was us, until we felt the immense love and grace of God, in the provision He made for us on the Cross through Jesus His son!
@tialoca_talks - You are right Tia, but what folks don't seem to realize is that by not believing God, they send themselves to hell. None of them want to go so they don't look at it as choosing hell. They choose their sin that has been cleverly disguised as good and enjoyable, never seeing the true ugliness of sin. Choosing to stay in their sin and not believing God and trusting His Son's righteousness sends them where they think they will be happy....reveling in sin, only sin will be sin for what it is in hell. It will bring nothing but suffering like what it brings here on this earth that people blame on God.
oh, they know they are choosing hell...they can deny it all they want but they are choosing and they know it...
Good post gramples.
well said Grampy. the song i'm hearing goes along w/ it "people need the Lord"
Well written.......the truth needs to be told. Whenever I'm reading an argument on REvelife between believers and nonbelievers who refuse to acknowledge the very existence of God and His Sovereignty, I'm also left with thinking "they are going to be sooo dismayed and afraid at the end of Time, and then, they will know the truth as they heard it - only then it will be too late to change their minds" - and that is so sad!
good topic about your post.. :)
Good message and one that needs to be written, preach about more! It is not God's doing that sends people to Hell, but rather it is the people (person) own doing's that put them there. People always want to blame someone or GOD for their own mistakes, and wrong choices they make. Time is running out people. Good message Grampy!
I hear that alot when people want to argue with me about heaven and hell and whether God is real or not. Time is definitely running out and I'm praying more people find Him before its too late.
I think it would be safer to say that we don't know why there is suffering in the world. especially with the certain extent in the world. we can't explain why hundreds of people died in a plane crash. you can't just say THAT's sin. While sin entered the world through Adam and Eve and their freedom of choice, it still cannot explain why bad things happen.
I think Roman's one, if place in proper context deals with Paul writing about HIS present sufferings and the sufferings of the Christians from persecution, to persevere. It is hardly a theological statement, and an answer to the age long problem of evil in the world.
And your argument for hell, demands consideration. The real question is why would an all loving God send people that may never have heard of the Gospel before. Especially if hell is eternal damnation. Why would God send someone to be in constant, unbearable pain for an infinite amount of time? If God is truly present everywhere, can't he even conquer Hell? I'm not saying that Hell doesn't exist, but I think these theological questions should be asked.
@MCTCanadian - Actually yes it can. Before sin, the world was perfect. The Bible says even creation was effected. Read the rest of Romans 8 after verse 18. Sin is not only the cause of all evil, it is the essence of evil. Thats why it disguises itself as pleasure to us in the flesh. Sin is the culprit of everything bad that happens. People can believe it or not, but it is the truth.
@MCTCanadian - I guess you added more to your answer while I was responding to what you commented first on.
See, what you are missing isd the yes, God is a loving God....He came down from glory and became a man to redeem us and yet did not have to do a thing about it, but He is also a just God and MUST punish sin/evil. As to someone who has never heard the gospel, all I can say is if it is God's will as creator of ALL things, He is just in handling it however He sees fit. Yes, to us it may seem unfair, but we can't see the spirit realm. We can't see how it all works. We are bound in the flesh and have to trust God that since He made it all, he is just in everything He does. He can not do wrong. Those are good questions, but still you have to take into consideration the questions are from a warped and damaged creation CAUSED by sin. We can't see it in is fullness, but God can. I'm sure I didn't answer anything well enough for you because I am certainly no scholar or theologian. I do the best I can to understand and what I don't I trust God and if it pleases Him to help me understand more, then thats great.
@UnworthyofHisgrace - thanks for the comment and to say the least that's all been very familiar (sorry if I am sounding negative but I'm really not). I think we should have a lot more questions almost in a certian sense and not be so sure about everything about God. Especially with the problem of evil. If a women asked you why her husband died of cancer, you wouldn't tell her it was because her husband sinned, or her mother or father sinned in the past. The fact is we've all sinned. But, we don't know why this person was struck with cancer. We don't know why certain babies die out there. Yes, we can still trust in a Loving and sovereign God. But, we don't know why.
and just for a neat verse...
New International Version(©1984)
Matthew 5:45
that
you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on
the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the
unrighteous.
notice how God sends rain on the righteous as well as the unrighteous, he has no partiality
@MCTCanadian - Go to this link and watch this. See what you think about this guy. If this guy had not gone through what he did, God couldn't have used him in the way He has now. There are reasons we just can't see and understand that God allows to happen. He doesn't do these things to people, He allows them to happen and he takes something awful and does something good with it. Please watch this video all the way through, the grace God has given this guy is amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LtCrlXdd2E&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpower%2Dranger%2Dfreak%2Exanga%2Ecom%2F%3Funi41477335%2Ddirection%3Dn%26uni41477335%2Dnextdate%3D6%252f28%252f2009%2B21%253a5%253a28%2E487&feature=player_embedded
@MCTCanadian - Try this one. For some reason when I am on Firefox, they sites won't link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LtCrlXdd2E&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpower%2Dranger%2Dfreak%2Exanga%2Ecom%2F%3Funi41477335%2Ddirection%3Dn%26uni41477335%2Dnextdate%3D6%252f28%252f2009%2B21%253a5%253a28%2E487&feature=player_embedded
Try that
@UnworthyofHisgrace - no offence, but I really hope you don't tell people that their loved one died for a reason, which is part of God's plan or will, even if you believe it to be true.
I watched the whole video, and while I do completely agree and admire him, this isn't a good way of explaining why bad things happen to good or bad people.
sometimes you have to listen to people and there isn't an explination. because your explination wouldn't do good anyways. While God does allow things to happen and doesn't "Do" it, it's the same thing as doing it. If a fireman had the power to rescue a child from burning building and fails to do so. It is his fault.
thanks for the link, I rather enjoyed it. I'm not going to comment any more.
Last Word: Remeber Job? And his friends? His friends were convincing him that he had sinned and that he has to repent. But Job refuse to say that he had sinned and he refused to curse God and die. Instead, he argued his case even in front of God.
@MCTCanadian - Thing is, there is never an explanation for bad or even the good that happens to people. There really isn't much of anything that can be said to someone that has lost a dear loved one that they were very close too.I might say I'm sure there is a reason, we just will never know it til we get to heaven ourselves.You know, just as there is a reason for death, there is also a reason for life. Why would you separate the two? Why live if there is no reason for anything?Thats what happens to folks that don't know Christ and bad things happen, they lose sight of any reasoning for things. Everything is for a reason. We have to learn to except whatever is given us, even when something bad happens to us, we can't see that because of that bad thing happening something much better can come along. Look at Joseph, his brothers meant what they did to him for bad, God used it for good, to save a whole nation. Trying to understand WHY things happen will drive us crazy. THAT is why I say God is in control and has a reason for everything that happens, even someones death. Look at the 5 missionaries that went to the Auca Indians in South America. If Jim Elliott and his friends had not done what they did, those Auca Indians might not have come to know the real God. Was there a reason for their death. Ask Elizabeth Elliott. Yes, it was hard on them then, but time shows the reasons eventually. Death is hard to shallow PERIOD. There is no way to make death easy for someone to except unless they KNOW Christ in a very deep and personal way, and even then it still hurts to loose that loved on.
Ok, I have rambled a lot and I don't even know how much since this has made. Just got in from work and my mind isn't all here. Hopefully you will get my point. We can't just say there was no reason for something like death just because we don't want to step on someones toes. Death is as much of a reality as life, both must be faced. Ok, I'll stop now before I start up again.
Hi! I found you on another site and liked your "name" so thought I'd come over. I love your music by Selah. I have that CD. It's wonderful. I really appreciate your writing the TRUTH here. It NEEDS to be said - no apologies. It's soo good to see people here who aren't afraid of standing up for the Truth, no matter what people think. Blessings to you! ~ Chris
except you pretty much are preaching to the choir, bud...hahahahaha
@tialoca_talks - Yes, to most of my subs I am, just hoping for some rec that will draw some here that either don't agree or haven't stopped to think about sin in this way
powerful post, so many times we do NOT take sin serious enough, we think, "oh, it was just a small thing, God will overlook it". Experiencing forgiveness is soo powerful that we should not be able to keep quiet about our God. Thanks for sharing.
Oh man ~ this is driving me insane. You will see my footprints all over your site. I am having trouble with all player sites....so then decided to go through firefox....had endless trouble...got onto your site via firefox without freezing but kept saying i need to download plugins....anyway, eventually today i managed to download flashplayer in firefox....came on your page....which then froze for a while whilst loading the play....then this message......Due to licensing restrictions, some or all
tracks may be unavailable for playback
in your country.
So, after all that......gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
Happy independence day Grampy! hope you are having a lovely day with the family ((hugs))